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Pre-Referendum High School Consolidation Committee
Meeting Minutes
March 29, 2012
A meeting of the Pre-Referendum High School Consolidation Committee was held at Enfield High School Library, located at 1264 Enfield Street, Enfield, CT on March 29, 2012.
CALL TO ORDER: Meeting was called to order at 7:13 PM by Randy Daigle
ROLL CALL:
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mrs. Apruzzese-Desroches (arrived at 7:22), Mrs. Brennan, Mr. Daigle, Ms. Osada Mr. Brown, Mr. Sargalski (arrived at 7:18), Mr. Schultz, Mr. Dague, Mrs. LeBlanc
ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Pongratz, Mr. Sepulveda, Mr. Kalagher, Mr. Hunt,
ABSENT: Mr. Droney, Mr. Stokes
Motion to accept minutes of March 8, 2012 by Kyle Kalagher
Seconded by Robert Hunt
Abstained by: Ms. Osada, Mr. Schultz
Motion passes by a show of hands
Motion to accept minutes of March 15, 2012 by Robert Hunt
Seconded by Kyle Kalagher
Abstained by: Ms. Osada, Mr. Schultz
Motion passes by a show of hands
Motion to accept minutes of March 22, 2012 by Robert Hunt
Seconded by Wendy Osada
Abstained by: Mr. Schultz
Motion passes by a show of hands
Comments:
Wendy Osada states she should be listed as a Committee Member and not as Also Present.
Randy reminds the committee to keep one conversation at a time for documentation purposes.
MEMBER COMMENTS:
Randy Daigle motions to move New Business Item 5B - Architects Report to be 1st item on the agenda
Seconded by Robert Hunt
Motion passes by a show of hands
Architects Report (5B)
States that Art will pass out the Prowda Report later. Report enrollment number is 1,700 at the 8 year maximum. That is the number they are designing to. In terms of reimbursement we are allowed to look at the largest number. Calculations sent out last week, maximum reimbursement number about 270 thousand square feet. That number will tweak. That number is the maximum reimbursed square footage. The floor plans from Lawrence were received. Those are helpful for producing graphics. Likely see graphics next week from architects as they begin to fill in the blocks and what they will be putting in the spaces. Passed out a simplified version of the program sent last week that was 6-8 pages, that is the working model. It was hard to follow, so to simplify it where we are as of this week regarding square footage. Goal is to try to determine how much square footage we are going to need to build as part of the addition. We have a good grip on what programs are going into various spaces, how much existing square footage is in the existing building. What we are going to look at next week is how much addition is going to be needed to fulfill the programs that Art has been feeding us. Met with Art last week. Began to hash out how the program is going to fit in the existing building. We think we have that gelled in terms of departments. If you don’t see a department on the spread sheet it means that it is going to reside inside the existing building. This spread sheet is just what is not going to fit inside the existing EHS. The delta of how much addition is needed. We took the program that was presented to us, there has been some reduction in the programs and Art will speak to that, 80-90% reduction of classrooms. Took that same reduction and applied it to the various departments that are going into the STEM addition. What you’re seeing on the first two pages is social science, science, math, tech, art, SPED, shared support that goes over to page 2. You will see in the middle of page 2 we’re showing the STEM addition which is a 3 story addition off the A-wing it is going to be in the 97,000 square foot range. In other words, we need 97,000 square feet of new area to fit page 1 and half of page 2 programs into that new addition. Planning a circulation factor of about 35%. Looking for a range of about a 90,000 square foot addition. All the other requested program increases are surprising, re: gym, health, the items on the bottom of page 2. Then as you go to page 3, music, café addition, page 4 mechanical, career center and SPED. It is giving us a total addition of about 155,000 square feet. So when we first talked about a 90,000 or 100,000 square foot addition, our numbers were based on the programs given to us. It is showing an addition of 155,000 square feet on top of the existing high school at 188,000 to deal with the total combined high school. This assumes that the D-wing is taken down. That square footage is out of this formula. This is a snap shot. The initial struggle is that we’re exceeding our allowable maximum reimbursement by 50,000-60,000 square feet. We need your directions. Tweaking of the programs. We’ll take the cues from you on how to approach this. Immediate looking at surplus of 55,000-60,000 square feet over the allowable maximum reimbursement. It doesn’t mean you can’t build that, it means you are going to be reduced on the surplus, the reimbursement is going to go down.
Randy asks is that everything? The golden egg? Every facility? Or is it the minimum?
Architect states no, already began to reduce the academic requests by 80%. Everybody went for the gusto, because we asked them to. We always start big then go down.
Randy asks if this includes the pool.
Architect states not the pool or the second full size gym that was requested.
Steve asks if it includes the auditorium.
Architect states this includes an increase in the auditorium which takes the auditorium all the way back to the back of the stage. Takes over music. We are increasing the depth, width and height of the stage. We are increasing the seating capacity by about 20%. We’re not going to get it up to 2,000.
Steve asks if it will be up to about 900 seats?
Architects state 700-750 seats. Landlocked between music and cafeteria wall without taking down the roof.
Randy asks Steve is that number the minimum you wanted to do?
Steve states if you’re looking at 1,700 students you’re looking at 600 per grade. A little small. Ideal is to combine 2 grades for a meeting.
Art states you will be able to do that pretty quickly if you look at the back page. The projected enrollment, you will drop a lot.
Architect states the projected enrollment numbers.
Bill states looking at the 80% reduction off the academics, now that I see that the enrollment is going down this heavily, maybe it was discussed at a previous meeting.
Art states he just got the information recently. He went back to the drawing board and dropped some classrooms. Combining some things because of the technology that will be available in 2016. Example, English department asked for 19 classrooms, 4 dedicated table top computer labs. No reason to build another table top computer lab, due to change in technology.
Bill asks once we exceed the reimbursable maximum square footage. How rapidly does it go down?
Architect states once you go over the allowable it begins to go down, there are a lot of variables that come into the formula. Rough numbers would be approximately 30% off the number for that delta. Once you get further away you get hammered.
Tina states we had received notification from CREC that they had opened up 91 seats for Enfield residents to go to the CREC magnet schools.
Steve asks if that is district wide or just secondary.
Tina replies from grade 6 to high school. We have 322 now. Possibly in September it could be 400. Asks what do they teach Health in now? How do you teach Health now?
Brien states it is part of P.E. class.
Tina asks if we definitely need 2 specific health rooms?
Architect states that health is showing 2, but that is not the total count. There already is existing health inside EHS. This is the delta – above and beyond.
Tina states, so it is a possibility that we wouldn’t need 2.
Architect states programming is asking for 4.
Tina states we have to be cognizant of going over the square footage.
Art states that includes Team Leadership.
Tina asks about the wellness room. What is the basis of that.
Art states we were looking at the number of teaching stations. Gross number of students, assuming that everyone takes PE, we’re looking at the number of teaching stations that would be able to accommodate them per period. The nice part of having Steve and Brien on this committee is that they’re the schedulers. The next thing to look at is at the student enrollment and number of classrooms.
Tina states that is why she is looking at the P.E. piece, some of the presentations that were given were talking about the possibility of adding on so we could possibly get Park & Rec involved. If that is going to take off the square footage/add some square footage, if that is the vision, that is an opportunity for FHS, not for here.
Judy states she’s assuming that when the department came with their requests, they were basing it on today’s requirements for graduation, as well as today’s class sizes. As you pared things back, I’m assuming you did use Prowda’s report, did you also look at the new high school requirements?
Art states that is why some departments are larger.
John states just looking at square footage, 800 square foot classroom put it at about 50 square foot per student. There is equipment that takes up space, CAD machines, printers. Won’t fit into an 800 square foot room. In regards to metal working and wood working there is about 800 square feet of equipment. It might not meet the needs of the curriculum.
Architect states you want to see those go up to 1,000 or 1,200.
John states for general labs – 1,200. Right now we’re operating at about 125 square foot per student generally speaking for our classrooms with power tools and equipment. Some go up to 175. State doesn’t have hard guidelines just recommend 100-125. These are recommendations.
Architect states that is going to have to be a discussion. Will need your direction.
Brien states taking a guess if we dramatically exceed the maximum reimbursement, the taxpayers are not going to approve it.
Randy asks what is the square foot cost in the addition?
Architect states rough number, varies on what space you’re building. If you’re building classrooms is about $275.00 per square foot. Some academics are cheaper. Science labs are very costly.
Randy asks out of that then determine what the reimbursement/cost would be and then what the delta would be.
Architect states we can leave tonight, direct us to look at those number and redistribute them back, we can have them back to you by tomorrow via email. We can look at what loss of reimburse percentages will be. What the out of pocket expense for delta would be.
Randy states it would be good information to have. Not the deciding factor.
Architects state we might as well run it.
Randy states we want to lay it all out. Randy states Art is the contact with the architect. Could he work on that with them.
Judy states 188 is the footprint for EHS minus the D-Wing. What is EHS footprint including the D-Wing today?
Architect states it is about 25,000.
Judy asks what is the square footage at FHS.
Randy states it doesn’t matter. Our focus is here.
Wendy states it is hard to make choices if you have to slash somewhere else.
Randy states we will not be the ones doing the slashing. The Town will. This is just the Pre-referendum Committee. The next committee, the building committee, will go down to square footage cost. Exact layout. We are the ones doing the feasibility.
Wendy asks can we offer what we recommend?
Randy states no. Slicing comes from Art. Art has the detail at this level.
Architect states the programming can’t be finalized until it’s final. Tonight we are showing you a snapshot. No simple way to present the overage that we were beginning to see develop. The master is still incomplete.
Tina states it is just eye-level, what we were looking for.
Architect states we’re about 50,000-60,000 square feet over.
Brien asks what year are we projecting this building to be open?
Artchitect states 2016.
Brien states in 2016-2017 school year we’re looking at 250 few kids. In social studies, it’s roughly 3 fewer teachers than currently. Other departments would be similar.
Architect states the logic you just used was the logic we used across the board. As we looked at the current count and projected it to 2016, a 14 classroom scenario was reduced to about 12. We only rounded up to the next number. This is premature, we’re 5 years in advance and we’re doing a feasibility study. We’re trying to nail it down to details.
Brien states it looks like there is a little fat here.
Art states that is why he is hoping Brien and Steve can look at it. His was guesstimate, where Brien and Steve can refine it with their scheduling capabilities.
Steve states that would be easy to do. We also made the statement where every teacher gets a classroom. I’ve worked in several high schools where teachers did not get their own classroom. All sorts of ways to look at it.
Brien states especially with declining enrollment.
Robert asks in 20 years what if the enrollment increases?
Randy states there would have to be another building committee.
Architect states there could be another addition. It will be challenging enough to get this referendum approved. Can’t project 20 years from now. Would never be able to sell that.
Tina states approximately 300 kids in magnet school this year and possibly 400 next year. They can come back at any time. With a brand new high school in town, they may want to come back.
Architect states we are here to take your feedback and will design accordingly.
Maureen states the TC/BOE Strategic Planning Committee came up with a number of 2 million dollars in reducing operating/staff costs, somewhere in there may not be 16 teachers or a room for each person. Do we have how they figured that?
Judy states it was part of the GM2 evaluation. Enrollment projections, did they consider Magnet school enrollment? Prior reports did not.
Art states it was included. Listed under ‘other public’.
Architect states this is a milestone week for us. We will move into graphics. We communicate with Art daily. We will discuss the requests from Tech Ed from 800 to 1,200. If I hear you right, you want us to proceed. Will run the numbers on what the delta 60,000 square feet means in terms of reimbursement. We’re moving ahead for the next week, producing plans, diagrams and block layouts based on these numbers. As long as I get a bunch of nodding heads, that is how we will proceed.
Tina asks if there are any loopholes. Are any other schools concerned about the influx of kids returning from magnet schools?
Architect states no they haven’t heard a lot of that. I thought you were going to ask if other towns were building bigger than what their maximum reimbursement is. Simple answer is yes. They are building to the maximum. The loophole is we are able to look at the maximum enrollment of the 8 year period. We’re taking the largest year and applying that and moving forward. When the building is done being built it will already be down to 1,400-1,500. It isn’t when you build the building, it is when you file for the project with the State. Many other school systems are going through the same scenarios. Consolidations are happening because of CT’s declining enrollment/population. You are not unique. You have to act on it. Some towns are not acting on this tough decision. When the magnet school is located in your town, the draw is very heavy.
Tina states we may because the PSA is coming into the town.
Randy states regarding the State reimbursement. Their numbers are based on reimbursable numbers. Because they say your class should be 700 feet, that’s all we’re going to reimburse, that doesn’t mean that is the best size for the classroom. The best size may be 1,000, our reimbursement will only be 700. Many schools are building over because if they are putting the money in, they want the school to be functional. At the minimum, the reimbursement rate, the size may not be functional.
Architects states it is a baseline of your maximum enrollment, times the number of students, and that is the square footage you come up with.
Judy states where she works they don’t have offices. They have enclaves and wheelie carts they use. When I see ‘department chair office’ or we need a classroom that is their classroom, I start thinking about has school design gotten into the same thing? Shared spaces, booking spaces when you need them.
Architect states it depends on the district. Home bases are needed for teachers. It varies district by district.
Kyle asks what if we get a bunch of people who want to come to the school because it is so awesome. Could we find the data of how many kids are coming back from the magnet schools?
Tina states it is usually around 20.
Bill asks if it is 275.00 on average, is that for the new build or the refurbished?
Architect states new build.
Bill asks do we get reimbursed on the refurbished portion?
Architect states if we approach this as a renovate as new project, touching everything, renovating every square inch of the building, If we meet that requirement, everything we do is in the confines of the existing building, it is also 100% reimbursed.
Bill asks what is cost per square foot for renovation?
Architect states typically ranges 150-200 range. FFE. Everything gets yanked off the walls and we go down to the superstructure and we renovate as new. When you’re done you have a new building, system and finishes are new.
Steve suggests could we look at what other school districts have done with space. A lot of them create spaces for teachers, larger rooms instead of buying larger desks buy smaller desks, fit more in there. So all teachers fit in a common area. Classrooms are everybody’s. Utilize a department of 21 and have one meeting space. When they have prep that is where they are.
Architect states he is all for looking to shave square footage. If I was to categorized where the overage is, it is in the number of classrooms in academics. The spaces for the department heads are very humble. One department office is 120 square feet. It is the quantity of academics.
Randy state we should lay out all the facts. We should know the bad news with the good.
Architect states they expect to have layouts at next Thursday’s meeting (April 5, 2012).
Bill asks about the commercial food labs.
Architect states you are not seeing the whole picture (in the report). What you are seeing is the delta and it is not fitting in. You actually have 3 of the labs in the existing EHS on the lower level, two additional labs, a total of 5 spaces, 3 actual demonstration labs which are approximately 1,400 SF range. The two general classrooms more for theory than labs.
Architect states that they have been directed that all the science rooms are “CLABS”. Classroom/lab combinations and 1,200 is the right number. We design a lot of them and they are usually 1,150-1,200.
Robert asks about the other departments.
Architect states we are reconfiguring the entire department of Math. What you know now as the spaces will not be what we’re showing as the plan. Lanugage will be up on the 3rd floor. Trying to be pure to the STEM.
Art states Language is getting larger because of the new curriculum.
Maureen asks if we will be able to see the totals.
Architects states yes, you will see everything next week. We are hoping to give you a plan, the layout that shows design of the building and how well the pieces and parts fit inside the existing building and the revisions and the square footage. Cost associated with what we’re showing as existing and what we’re showing as new. Big milestone to get to.
Randy asks if there is any more discussion.
Judy makes a motion to continue based on the square footage presented tonight.
Seconded by Wendy
Motion passes by a show of hands
Randy thanks the architects for their update.
OLD BUSINESS:
4a. Discussion of Public Forum on the High School Plan for Further Additions or Deletions. Randy asks Art to clarify.
Art states it is run through of the presentation.
Randy states it is to go over what is going to be presented before next Tuesday (April 3rd).
Judy makes a motion to table agenda item 4a until later in the agenda
2nd by Wendy
Motion passes by a show of hands
4b. Discussion of Committee Roles on Providing Expert Answers. Randy states it is the same thing.
Judy makes a motion to table agenda item 4b until later in the agenda
2nd by John
Motion passes by a show of hands
4c. Discussion/Vote to Eliminate Alternate Use of FHS from the Scope of this Committee. Randy states that is not in their charge. Nothing to discuss further
Judy makes a motion to remove item 4c from the agenda
2nd by Bill
Motion passes by a show of hands
Tina will handle all questions if they come up at the conversation.
4d. To Remove the Addition of a Pool Structure from the Architectural Scope of the Combined High School Project.
Judy makes a motion to table it until next Thursday (April 5th0
2nd by Steve
Motion passes by a show of hands
4e. Discussion/Vote to Authorize Art Pongratz to Develop a Website with the TOE in Preparation for Legal Decision on Content.
Judy makes a motion to authorize Art to develop a website with the Town of Enfield
2nd by Bill
Motion passes by a show of hands
Discussion:
Randy explains in order to inform the public we are developing a website where the public can get the agenda, minutes, whatever is being shown.
Judy states they won’t have to go through the town or BOE website to find us. Art has been working with the Town Attorney to see what we can and cannot say. We have to give him our authority on the committee’s behalf.
Judy states legally public funds cannot be used to promote a referendum, but until the town council sets a question and puts it on the ballot for November which will happen sometime in June or July. We technically do not have a referendum that the town is spending money on. We can use their resources for a website.
Randy asks if there is any further discussion authorizing Art Pongratz to develop a website.
4f. Mock Presentation by Randy Daigle. It is still in draft form. Randy goes through his presentation. Committee member comment on the bullet points. Randy and committee members will refine it this weekend.
Judy states the press releases went out.
Tina asks what is the standard time of when items go out. Two weeks or two days? We’ve lost time. Did the legal opinion slow us down?
Randy states Dr. Gallacher gave permission for flyers go out with the students. Randy requested it and has not heard confirmation. He will call Dr. Gallacher tomorrow (Fri., March 30) to verify. It was also suppose to be on the Town’s website. Can we give any information out of where they can go for the website? Will give the web address on the handout.
Judy states to call Kathy. She will know if it has happened.
Discussion on lighting on the stage.
Art states they have improved the lighting.
Genaro offers to help with lighting from Facilities Management. Genaro asks about coloring on the slide presentation.
John states green is better for the eyes. That is why highway signs are green with white letters.
Robert states if you change the lights you will have to change it back. You will need the lift to change the lights.
Randy will finalize the powerpoint presentation and give it to E-TV by Monday.
Wendy asks who will check the facilities before 7:00 PM on April 3rd.
Randy states that Art and Genaro will do the checking of the auditorium.
Maureen asks who will do the handouts? Who will do the sign up sheets?
Art states send it to Debbie via email.
Kyle states he has 2 tests tomorrow and needs to know what to wear?
Randy states to be comfortable.
Bill asks to move on, it is 9:50 PM.
Kyle asks about sports, uniforms, mascots, colors. What should I say if I am asked about that at the conversation?
Judy states the BOE will decide on that with a committee of students from both schools and administration. Naming of the school, there is a whole policy on that.
NEW BUSINESS:
Sharing of Demographic Report for Enfield Schools. Art states it is a “nose” count on the kids. The numbers speak for themselves. Does anyone see a need for further discussion. School population is shrinking. No discussion.
USER GROUP COMMENTS:
No comments
LIASION COMMENTS:
No comments
John asks if he can’t attend is there anyone who he is suppose to notify.
Randy states you don’t need to. Any effort you put in is greatly appreciated.
GOOD TO THE ORDER:
Randy made his first one in one.
Robert has his Spain trip in 7 days.
RECOMMENDED TOPICS FOR NEXT AGENDA
Robert asks when the tabled items will come up.
Judy states if they were tabled until expert answers are provided.
Judy states add Status Update, Invited Guests
Maureen states we tabled the Pool.
Judy states it was tabled until Thursday. When do we have to have our final report to the Strategic Planning Committee/BOE/TC? Is it by April 30th?
Randy states it is the last week of April.
Judy states that means we have a month.
Art states it is April 15th.
Randy states it needs to go on the agenda.
Judy states we are meeting at 6:00 on Tuesday, April 3rd.
Motion to Adjourn by Maureen
2nd by Wendy
Motion passes with a show of hands
Meeting ends: 10:05 PM
Submitted by: Ellen Smith, Recording Secretary
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